Atheist or Anti-theist are pushing their agenda with the ultimate goal to remove God from the government, schools and public life. Atheist believe that without religion, society would be better off and the world would be more peaceful.
Religion in their view is outdated and obsolete. They argue that we have made many advances in science, the medical field and we possess a higher knowledge than our forefathers did. They believe that all the answers can be found in science and human wisdom. They believe that with human reasoning and science they can fix most of the problems facing modern society and the world today.
One of their arguments is, “if we could just get rid of these religious people the world would be a better place.” They have billboards and signs on buses that read: “There is probably no God” and “you can be good without God.” Atheist and Anti-theist have become increasingly outspoken over the last few decades and the liberal media outlets have given them a platform to do so. Although Atheist are a minority in this country and the world , people like Atheist Bill Maher have their own shows on cable TV.
Just recently, Bill Maher ridiculed Tim Tebow again and again because of Tim’s faith in Jesus Christ. He mocked him because he prays on the field and speaks openly about Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. I have not heard Maher and others attacking Muslims, Buddhist and Hindus in the media as they attack Christians and Christianity. Are they afraid to speak out about Islam? Are we dealing with hypocrites that attack one faith only, Christianity? Political correctness has taken over this country and made it almost impossible to say anything in the media or in public about other faith groups like the Muslim faith for example. The liberal media is very quick to report on people who speak out against Islam and the Islamic Sharia law.
People that voice their concerns about radical Islam and it’s teachings are called by the media, Islamophobic. The liberal media seems to have no problem with Christian bashing on TV. Shows like Maher’s mock Jesus Christ and His followers, ridiculing them because of their faith. Would this country be better off without God? I don’t think so. We are already witnessing a vast moral decline in society. If we remove the God of the Bible completely from public life, this country and the world would be in chaos. The moral values that we once had would be forgotten and everybody would do what’s right in their own eyes. The US constitution is based on biblical principles, the ethic and moral law that we all enjoy can be found in the pages of the Bible.
The founding fathers, although not all of them were believers wrote the constitution with the ten commandments and the laws of the Torah as a guide. Many want to deny this today, trying to change the history of this country by adding things that are not true. Go to Washington DC and look at the US Supreme Court House. On the Western facade, you find the words “Equal Justice Under Law” and on Eastern facade, “Justice the Guardian of Liberty.” The Eastern facade has Moses holding the two tablets with the 10 commandments as the law giver. Our moral and ethical values come from the 10 commandments given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai.
The judiciary laws are based on biblical principles. If we take God and the Bible out of the equation, how would this world look? Who would set the moral standards, who would decide what is right and what is wrong? What is right for somebody may not be right for somebody else.
If we solely base morality on human reason alone instead of God, how would this world look? There are already plenty of people in society today that think there is nothing wrong with killing or raping someone. Nothing wrong with stealing from others. If we build a society based on human reasoning and human understanding without God or the ten commandments, society as we know would cease to exist.
The reason that we are still live in a somewhat civil society is because of believing Christians that stand for conservative principles. I’m not saying that every non believer or liberal person is bad, but in general a liberal mindset has no boundaries. It’s a view of compromise, tolerance towards those with the same mind, but the most intolerant people against those in opposition. Atheist and liberals look at issues as grey, rather than black or white. That is a dangerous view to have because it is clouded and uncertain. Jesus said, “Let you yes be yes and your no be no, everything else is of the evil one.” Religions have been around since the beginning, all religions have one thing in common, a set of moral and ethic rules to live by. These different religions have much in common when it comes to moral and ethical values. Who gave mankind moral values? People intrinsically know when they did something wrong. They know that certain behaviors are wrong. How do they know?
Is it because God has given mankind moral standards that are instilled in every human being? I heard a story of missionaries that went into the deepest jungle in South America and reached a people who were totally isolated from the world. They had a custom of revenge killing. After month and month of ministering to the tribal people and telling them about Jesus and salvation and forgiveness through Him, the chief told them a story. A family member was killed by a rival tribe and as it was their custom, he sought out the person and killed him in return. Justice was served in their belief. The missionary spoke in length with the chief and ask him how he felt killing someone. The chief answered that he knew it was wrong, but he did it anyways and felt terrible afterwards. God gave us all a conscience. Instinctively we know what’s right or wrong. God’s law is written on our hearts, some just ignore and refuse God’s law and have hardened their hearts.
So, my fellow Atheist, you may deny God and His existence. You may want to shout from the roof tops, “I can be good without God.” The fact is His laws are written on your heart. If you want to get rid of God from society, the society will collapse sooner or later. There are some Godless societies, North Korea would be one. Maybe that would be a good model for us to learn from? Instead of worshiping God, people worship the supreme leader.
“Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.” Patrick Henry.
“It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains.” Benjamin Franklin.
“Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom.” Patrick Henry.
“I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson.
“The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.” Noah Webster.
- The Atheist Dilemma (media4lifeministries.com)
- Human Reasoning or God’s Standard’s? (media4lifeministries.com)
- I Was an Atheist Like You Before I Found Jesus (fallenfromgrace.net)
- Bill Maher – Anti-Tebow Tweet Not Much of a Joke (fueledbyscotch.wordpress.com)
- A case of Blasphemy by Bill Maher. Why do people hate Jesus so much? What can we do? (pastormikesays.wordpress.com)
42 thoughts on “Good without God?”
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Okay, I give up. Ask a simple question; get a sermon about a different topic entirely.
My point was about civil morality – i.e., the morality that we as humans have to live with every day, upon which we base our decisions in how to act towards other people. I was not talking about the theological ramifications of sin, though you both seem determined to make it so.
To wit: If you were a judge in a court and a burglar as described in my example came before your court, followed by the homeless person who shoplifted some food, I can guarantee you that 99% of the people in this country would be shocked and appalled if you treated them the same and gave them the same sentence. That is where “grey” comes in, in everyday, what-shall-we-do-next situations. Circumstances matter as well as actions. That’s all I had to say.
By the way, don’t waste your time telling me that god loves me or to search my heart or whatever, and you don’t have to tell me what the word “christos” means or what comes after John 3:16. I was a theologically conservative christian for nearly fifteen years, and a more moderate one for several years more, so I have been there, I have done that, and frankly it does not compute. After many years of study and thought, I can tell you now that I cannot find the least reason why I should believe in your god, someone else’s, or any god at all, for that matter, though I have found plenty of reasons NOT to. I’m not here to deconvert you, so I won’t go into my train of logic, but suffice it to say that unless a deity were to come down to the physical earth and demonstrate its powers incontrovertibly before all of humanity, I’m going to continue to behave as if this is the only world there is and this my only life. I am going to live my life in such a way as to contribute to the happiness my own happiness and the happiness of others (which includes working for peace and justice for ALL people) to the best of my ability.
I understand what you’re saying but what we “say” and how God “sees it” can be two very different things. For example let me give you some scripture that mentions someone stealing due to hunger…
“People do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy himself when he is starving. Yet when he is found, he must restore sevenfold; He may have to give up all the substance of his house.” (Proverbs 6:30,31)
Notice it says that people can understand the situation but that does not make it right. Now wIth sin…well, sin is sin and it all reaps the same “wage” regardless of how “expensive” or “cheap” we think it is. Will certain sins/actions do more harm than others in the physical life? Sure! Will certain sins “harden a person’s spiritual heart” faster than others? Sure! But all sins in “the end” have the same result – spiritual death if they’re not repented of.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
Take care Kat.
Hi Kat, “her sin was not as great.” I can see that from a human level. You see, that is how we would look at things, “my sin is not as bad as the other person” or “at least I’m not like that guy.” Unlike us, God does not grade sin on a curve. A Sin is a Sin. God does not look at one sin lesser than the other. All sin is equal in God’s view. We as human beings have fallen short of God’s glory. We all have sinned and fallen short. I know you may not believe in God at this time, but God will judge sin. We all have an expiration date and that is something that you and I have in common. A person that is a believer in Jesus Christ and has asked for forgiveness and repented (change of mind) from the former lifestyle or practices is forgiven of all sin and will not enter into judgment.
True biblical Christians are not better people than others, they are forgiven by Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. He bore our sins so that those who who would believe will have eternal life. On my own, in my flesh… I’m just like everybody else. I will never be sinless or perfect in this lifetime. But I strive to be conformed more and more each day into the image of Christ, living after the spirit rather than the flesh and it’s desires. Christ btw is not His last name, it means Messiah/Savior. It is not by my goodness or righteousness that I am saved from judgment. It is by His righteousness that was imputed onto me as a believer and God see’s me in Christ. Jesus has done it all and I believe and take that by faith in Him. I know that God loves us and He want us to turn away from the things of the world and come back into His loving arms. He is our creator and Father and He cares for us.
Kat, He loves you as well. Don’t just brush it off. Give it some thoughts, learn about Jesus and who He is, not about religion or the physical church. The true church is every single true believer in Jesus as Lord and Savior. God demonstrated His love towards us while we were yet sinners.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16.
I’m sure that you have heard that one before, it get’s quoted a lot. But Jesus said some more following that statement, which are not quoted as often:
“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:17-19.
The sinners those who reject Jesus and the free offer of forgiveness and eternal life by His Grace are already condemned. Something to think about, especially when we talk about black or white. There are only two destination: Heaven or eternal separation from God. Nothing in the middle or grey. The choice is yours to make, you can either deny God or reject God or seek Him and you shall find Him. It is not God that sends people to Hell/eternal separation, it is people that send themselves there because the rejected Jesus.
My point was that — for most people — morality is not a simple question of black and white. I’m not saying the woman in my example *should* have stole food, only that in comparison to the other stories her “sin” was not as great — and I think that a lot of people in this country would agree with my position. THAT is grey. Black and white would be that we would consider her crime/sin to be exactly as evil as that of the burglar or Wall Street trader and that her punishment would be the same.
I find it interesting that you didn’t really answer the questionI raised, only trotted out the old warning against “the ends justify the means.” Obviously ends do not *justify* means, but they may mitigate them. The question we must all keep in the forefront of our minds when faced with difficult moral/ethical decisions is: “how can I achieve the best possible outcome (“good”) while causing the least harm (“evil”)?
“One, a person breaks into a house and steals jewelry, money, small electronic, etc. so they can have more things than their friends. Black, right? How about two: someone loses her job, can’t find work, ends up on the street, is turned away from a shelter, and ends up shoplifting small food items so she can eat. Or three: a man working in the finance industry sets up an investment fund that he thinks will fail, sells it as a good investment, then bets against it and makes a huge profit when the investment does fail, wiping out perhaps the life-savings of some of the people he convinced to buy into his scam. What would you say — are all these equally black or equally white? No grey at all?”
I would only like to say that using the “ends to justify the means” is a dangerous mindset to fall into. And btw, the 3rd person is just as guilty as any thief – it’s intentional deception and God sees it too (Proverbs 6:16-19; 26:18,19; Matthew 23:14). Take care Kat.
Thanks for your comments. I do appreciate them and I am not necessarily demonizing people. You see, the difference is that you do not believe in God or are not sure that He exist. From my perspective as a believer in God, there is only black and white no grey. Jesus said this: “But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” Mat 5:37. If a person is dishonest about some business, like the man who scammed the people with an investment he knew would fail and hurt others. That is deception, lying and greed. The women who steals is breaking the law. I understand about her position, everybody needs to eat, but she is still breaking the law. And those are the laws of this land, stealing murder, rape, scamming etc. are punishable by law. I have to admit that some people are getting away with breaking the law, like people in politics and high positions, while the little guy gets punished to the max for doing the same thing. This world is not fair and you are right we need to live together peaceably, even if we may have different belief’s. The crime rate in the US is down, which is good. At the same time I see a moral decline in our society. You have for example a female musician, her name escapes me right now who does commercials about animals that are mistreated. I’m against that as well, but here is the way I see it, people are fighting to save animals, dogs, cats and bugs. But they seem to have no problem with the issue that we had 70 million abortions since 1973 in this country. They value the life of animals, but have no problem with murdering millions of unborn people. That is murder and there is no excuse for that. You have people that want same sex marriage, which I do not agree with and they adopt children and call it a family. Marriage is between a man and a women. But the liberal agendas are getting pushed onto people and they want tolerance for their behaviors or lifestyles. That is wrong. I am not against homosexual people, everybody has a free choice, but don’t called marriage or family. The gay act between two men is not natural, and I believe if some people would see how that actually looks in the bedroom would turn their heads in discuss. If being gay is natural, try to put a gay couple on an island and put two heterosexual people on an Island. Come back let’s say 70 years later. The gay island is empty, they cannot reproduce. The other island is populated with some people, building a society. People are trying to change the moral values, however we got them. In San Francisco, gay men wanted the right to go naked in public and sit naked in restaurants. They thought it was their right and that there is nothing wrong with that. They got away with it for awhile but the city council changed their mind and outlawed it. Now do you think that is normal? If we don’t keep certain moral values in this country and people demand their “rights to be naked” or to marry more than one wife, where will it end? If we compromise because of some minority groups on certain things, we will have people that want to do about anything that they see as normal. Where do we stop? What if someone says, I believe it is my right to marry a 14 year old girl, what is wrong with that? I believe that I should be able to be naked in public, what’s next, public sex? I know these are maybe not the best examples, but you have too admit that if we compromise and start tolerating things that no one knows where society is heading. I believe that it would be in a horrible decline. That’s why we have laws and people are fighting against them to have them changed to fit their agendas.
To your point of me being a Christian. I don’t like to call myself a Christian. (although I do sometimes) I am a follower and disciple of Jesus. Many people call themselves Christians and don’t know Jesus at all. I also hate religion, just as Jesus did. Religion is self-righteousness and many other things. Jesus never turned anyone away, He forgave prostitutes, which were despised by society. He healed the sick, He sat with the sinners. Sin means simply, missing the mark. We all fall short of the Glory of God. We all have missed the mark. I have not been a believer all my life you know, I came to Christ when I was 46 years old. I did many of those things people do and I have repented of them. Repentance means a change of mind. I look at things differently now that I did before. That does not make me perfect. I will never be perfect while in this body of corruption. It is Jesus that was perfect and sinless and it is His righteousness that was imputed onto me. It is not my righteousness but His. By believing in Him, a person is saved and forgiven of all their sins. You may not believe that, but I know for certain that God exist and that Jesus Who is God (second person/trinity) has saved me and I have eternal life. We used to be threefold human beings, Spirit, mind (consciousness) and flesh (body). Sin separates us from God, there is no spiritual connection. So the spiritual dead person only possesses a mind and body. He or she lives a life after the flesh. That’s why Jesus said, “You must be born again”. You see, we are all spiritual beings and these bodies are just vessels. Have you ever thought about why we die? There is no reason that our cells would reproduce themselves and we could live forever. death is not natural, it came because of sin, in fact, everything is dying, even the universe. Well, I went on way to long and you might think I’m nuts. I am just being honest about what I believe. If you like, check out some of my articles and maybe you will understand me a little bit better.
I’m wishing you all good things and a happy life. Just remember, even though you may not believe, God love you and He wants you to embrace Him, not religion but love. In your quite time, ask God if He really exist to reveal Himself to you. See what happens. Thanks again and thanks for a civil discussion., Freddy.
I believe you missed *my* point, actually — I was not addressing your entire post, simply your assertion that people intrinsically know what’s wrong because god gave them a built-in moral code, regardless of their actual belief system. I pointed out that this might not be the product of god “writing on their hearts” but one of social evolution, which allows communities to live and thrive. I then pointed out that many, many people behave morally without any religion at all, which addressed the possibility of social evolution as well as gave my answer to the question posed in your blog entry’s title.
You did not, actually, make the distinction between moral behavior and moral thinking in your original post. You simply said that if we got rid of god in government and society, everything would dissolve into chaos, but that doesn’t necessarily follow. If people can and do *behave* morally, how can any harm come to society? What people think inside — which you believe god cares about — makes no difference to anyone else unless acted upon. I could sin against your god by hating this person or lusting after the other or coveting that one’s house or car, but if I do not *act* on these private feelings, no one would ever know I had them and society would trundle along happily because I *didn’t* assault someone or steal their property. How is this the end of civilization?
You say my “social evolution” theory makes no sense because we have more crime and more wars than ever, but I’m afraid that argument doesn’t hold up, because there is NOT more crime and war now. These things always fluctuate, but in the U.S., crime is generally DOWN across the board and has been declining for years (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/may/crimes_052311/crime_052311), and violence world-wide is down as well (http://durangoherald.com/article/20111023/NEWS03/710239997/-1/News03/Through-history-world-turns-kinder-gentler). It always seems like everything around us is falling apart, but part of that is just an impression due to increased connectivity and access to news as it happens (not to mention the atmosphere of fear-mongering perpetrated by some talking heads in the media).
Since we’re on the topic, I do want to address one of your original points that I left alone the first time. You said: “Atheist and liberals look at issues as grey, rather than black or white. That is a dangerous view to have because it is clouded and uncertain.” What I want to know is how you believe even the devoutest Christian (one who was actually sane) could see the entire world as black and white. Stealing is wrong, correct? Black. But let’s look at some examples: One, a person breaks into a house and steals jewelry, money, small electronic, etc. so they can have more things than their friends. Black, right? How about two: someone loses her job, can’t find work, ends up on the street, is turned away from a shelter, and ends up shoplifting small food items so she can eat. Or three: a man working in the finance industry sets up an investment fund that he thinks will fail, sells it as a good investment, then bets against it and makes a huge profit when the investment does fail, wiping out perhaps the life-savings of some of the people he convinced to buy into his scam. What would you say — are all these equally black or equally white? No grey at all? The last guy didn’t even break any laws, though the woman did. Is there no difference? My point is by compromising and seeing “grey,” people attempt to serve others to the best of their abilities and that that mindset is NOT going to bring this nation or world to a screeching, apocalyptic halt. We all try to do the best we can, you as well as I.
As I said, you can believe anything you want, but I have to take exception when you demonize people without real facts or an honest understanding of their position.
Kat, thanks for the comment. You completely missed my point. I’m not saying that people can’t do good things, Atheist or any other group. You are looking at it from a human level. Of course there are people in the world that have love, compassion etc. for others. I was writing from the spiritual level, the way God looks at all of us. He looks at the heart of man, not the outward. Only God knows the heart and we do not. We may say that that person has a good heart, look how nice he or she is. That still does not live up to the Holiness of God. We have pride, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eye. There is greed, envy, jealousy, hate murder you name it. If you read Matthew 5, 6 and 7 you will see how Jesus looked at things. The religious people of His day thought that they kept the law perfectly. They would say, we never murdered anyone. (one of the commandments) Jesus said, if you hate your brother, you have already committed murder in your heart. The religious people said we never committed adultery. Jesus said: if you look at a women and lust after her, you have committed adultery in your heart. You see it’s a heart issue. Have you ever lied, just even a small so called “white lie”? Have you ever desired something that was not yours? Have you ever lusted after someone? I have and I broke the perfect law of God. You see, I can look all nice from the outside but you would still not know what’s in my heart. In our flesh we can never be good compared to God’s standards. Don’t think that I am judging, because I’m not good either in my flesh. Christians are not better people than anybody else, but as believers in Jesus we have the righteousness of Christ imputed onto us. God does not look at me, He looks at the righteousness of Jesus. Because I believe in Jesus, my sins have been forgiven. (which does not mean that I am sinless as some may claim). I am just looking at things different now than I used to for 46 years before I was born again.
And you argument about the evolutionary process makes no sense. If we would evolve to better people, how come we have more crime, more killings and wars? And please don’t come with the argument that Christians or religions killed more people than anybody else. There have been way more people killed by atheistic societies such as China, Soviet Union and others. Mao killed 70 million people alone. I am not condemning you as you stated, I’m just trying for you to look at it from a different angle, a spiritual angle. I’m not quite sure if you meant to say that you are an atheist or agnostic. If you are agnostic, I guess you are not sure if there is a God. In the Greek Gnostic means a higher knowledge of things. Agnostic ( a is always a negative) in the Greek means no knowledge or not knowing. In my opinion, that is not a good place to be in. Thanks for the correction on my spelling error, English is my second language, I make some spelling mistakes here and there.
>”Who gave mankind moral values? People intransigently [sic] know when they did something wrong. They know that certain behaviors are wrong. How do they know?” (I assume you meant “intrinsically” instead of “intransigently,” but the irony is still pretty impressive.)<
Ever consider that everyone "knows" what is good and bad because it makes sense, evolutionarily speaking? Keeping peace within a community (i.e., doing "good") creates the greatest possible happiness for the greatest number of people — it's just observable cause-and-effect-type proof. You know…kind of like science. In fact, your argument that everyone instinctively knows what is good is rather an argument AGAINST your position than for it, because if everyone already knows right from wrong, what do we need YOU and your believe-in-me-or-suffer-forever god for?
Most of my friends are atheist or agnostic (as am I), and they are as honest, compassionate, loyal, helpful, and generous — as "moral" — as any of my Christian friends. MORE so than anyone who uses the label "Christian" (or "Muslim," "Jew," "Hindu," etc.) to justify hatred, bigotry, and intolerance. These friends and I are, indeed, "good without god." Listen: you want to believe in a specific religion, go right ahead, but you should get your facts straight before you start criticizing or condemning people who don't belong to your particular club.
Thank you Nick, it was nice talking to you. I wish you a happy 2012. I think we have said all that needs to be said. I do as the Lord told me to do: “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.” Mat 7:6. If you don’t understand what Jesus meant, you can look at some commentaries. All the best, good bye.
It’s simple. I have no concern about Islam ‘taking over’ any western nation, not at this point, anyhow. If that changes, my point of view could well change. However, what I see as a very large threat is a Christian dominionist/theocratic movement insinuating itself into politics and threatening my freedom to reject religion, and imposing religion-based discrimination on my fellow citizens. The fact is, when you look at somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Iran – theocracies – there’s no reason to suspect a Christian theocracy would be any better. By the way, Muslims have built schools, hospitals, universities, and run massive charitable organizations as well. Check out the Aga Khan University some time, for example. I’d rather see all of those things come from secular roots, though.
You do a great job of showing your complete inability to counter atheist points of view by your ridiculous logical leaps. I’m getting a lot of laughs out of them. I don’t want to see any sort of violence over religions, but I note that the lion’s share of that violence comes from other religious groups. Secularists just want religion out of politics mostly, as for me, I just want to see religion disappear, to die of “natural causes” as people realize what nonsense it all is. That’s it. That’s all. And people like you posting this sort of nonsense? Well, you actually help the cause. So, thanks!
Freddy what you shared is so true, God has shown me clearly where the rapture is talked about in the Scriptures and He has confirmed it many times but just like the modern word Trinity which is Scripturally the Godhead it is not called by this name, time on this earth is indeed short.
I feel so much compassion for these lost souls Freddy because if they don’t repent we know what their eternal destination will be. I have cried to God many times asking Him to reach out to them giving them His understanding but He will not go against their free will, but how He longs for them to search for Him with all their hearts, if they did they would have no doubts, it grieves Him greatly that they don’t and instead just trust in their own understanding or others.
Thank you Freddy, I’m blessed with you having touched my life, I feel uplifted in your strong stand for The Lord and respect your desire to help those who are lost in their confusion, mostly because of wrong teaching and yes sometimes tough Love or telling it how it really is …shows True Love and is very much needed!
Christian Love Anne.
Thanks Anne, I think Nicks, comment was one of the most ignorant once I have seen to date. I don’t know want kind of society atheist want, the fail to realize that without any kind of Christian influences in society we would not have all the comforts and judicial laws and the freedom that we enjoy in the west. I would love to take some of these outspoken atheist with me on a trip to the Middle East, places like Saudi Arabia or Iran maybe and have them tell the supreme leaders that religion is wrong at that Allah does not exist. At least in the “west” they have the freedom of speech unlike many other atheistic countries like North Korea. As you know Anne, they will get their wish eventually, once the church is taken up and the anti-Christ has his reign for seven years. The book of Revelation speaks very clearly about the once that refused God cry out to the rocks to fall on them. They will get their utopia, I do think however that they will not like it very much. Blessings, Freddy.
Media 4 Life Ministries January 2, 2012 @ 9:40 am says Wow Nick, with all .religions? Christianity is problematic in the West? The contributions of Christianity in the “west” is undeniable………
Wow and Wow again Freddy that is a great response, I’m going to cut and past it ….Spot on!
Christian Love Anne.
Wow Nick, with all religions? Christianity is problematic in the West? The contributions of Christianity in the “west” is undeniable, Hospitals, Universities, Charitable organizations etc. Christians did not fly airplanes into the Twin towers in the name of God. Christians in Africa and large parts of the Middle East getting slaughtered, in the name of Allah, the god of Islam. I guess you don’t mind if Christians are getting persecuted, killed and raped in the “East” by the thousands. This fit’s your agenda and viewpoint doesn’t it? Getting rid of Christians and Christianity. The East consist mostly of either Communist regimes or Islamic regimes. Since you state that Christianity and the followers are problematic, would an atheistic government your ideal? The iron curtain was communist and atheistic, North Korea and China are atheistic countries, maybe the US would be better off if it were a atheistic country? More people have been persecuted and killed by atheistic societies. So,if Christianity is a problem, what would you like to see, a godless society such as N. Korea, where people worship the leaders or a country without any influences of Christianity and it’s moral values and ethics? Of course you would have to either silence or get rid of all people of faith to accomplish your utopia. Btw, I challenge you to go to a predominantly Muslim neighborhood which are not hard to find here in the “west” and speak out against their religion with the same zeal as you do against Christianity. Maybe they let you voice your anti- religious views in a mosque. I’m sure they would love to have a nice and friendly conversation with you. I don’t see atheist speak out against Islam, either here in the US or Britain, the homeland of Dawkins and the recently expired Hitchens, very outspoken against the evil of Christianity, but pretty silent about radical Islam taken over Great Britain. Wonder why?
Actually, atheists generally have issues with all religions for the same reasons – but at least in “the West”, we view the influence of Christianity as being most pervasive and problematic, so it gets more attention.
So true Eugene, they are hypocrites, their focus is on Christianity nit Islam or other religions, they just don’t like the gospel of Christ. They want to live a life after their own desires of the flesh. Thanks for your comment, many blessings to you in 2012, Freddy.
“I have not heard Maher and others attacking Muslims, Buddhist and Hindus in the media as they attack Christians and Christianity. Are they afraid to speak out about Islam?”
You’re right they are! What other reason could there be? It’s a trend that goes across almost the whole spectrum of “Hollywood’s Brightest” (including others like Kathy Griffin) who love to pick on Christianity and Christians but not one word is given in any derogatory manner towards Muhammad or Islam. I guess even in the eyes of an atheist all religions weren’t created equal – or at least don’t get the equal disdaining treatment that Christianity receives.
I’m sorry Nick your reading from a link or a book which still has no evidence to support it’s claims, I repeat Nick I was an Atheist for almost 30 years including my childhood except for a few years when with my child like understanding Jesus was my friend, now He is 100% my best Friend, in Truth He always was but I had built a wall of Atheism and blocked Him and His Light out.
Nick I know all the arguments that Atheists present I used them, but if you want to continue and it’s alright with Freddy that I respond to you, he has the Authority on this Blog not me and so I submit to his leadership,if it’s ok with him, then show me your evidence and we will talk about it, let’s reason together and not argue.
Kind regards Anne.
No evidence to support evolution? Are you deliberately being ignorant?
The recurrent laryngeal nerve shows the absurdity of the idea of design, and common ancestry among mammals, as does the remarkable genetic similarity amongst primates and humans. Lenski’s E. Coli experiment is one of the most fascinating ongoing studies, where there evolutionary process has been monitored closely and actually observed in a population. Those are just a couple examples. The Theory of Evolution underpins basically all of biology. If it somehow was wrong, almost everything we know about life would cease to make sense. So it’s a good thing that it doesn’t seem to be, and that no one has been able to prove otherwise.
There is zero evidence of any sort of creation, and the story of Genesis is nothing short of absurd. Anyone who claims evidence of creation exists is either making an appeal to personal incredulity or lying.
I’m sorry Nick but there is no evidence to support Evolution, I’m not lying why would I, there never was and never will be, the only evidence they have found also supports Creation. God confirmed in the Scriptures even before they had Pathology that there were different kinds of flesh and that they don’t interbred and they have never found evidence that they do their D.N.A is very differant, perhaps a good example is your tummy button check it out and you will see there is no evidence. Do you really think I didn’t try to prove them wrong… Nick …hey I had ego! but I was wrong and so are you and with my now being a Christian for 30 years I have no doubt in the reality of God perhaps you need a Link to help you find the right focus but remember we are not against you Nick we care that you make the right choice for Eternity it is not God’s will that any one perishes or suffers… http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/
Kind regards Anne.
They’ve proven nothing. They’ve made claims. And there are almost infinite scientific resources that thoroughly torpedo any of their claims. The reason, for example, that there’s no dispute over the Theory of Evolution at this point is simple. All it would take is one piece of evidence which doesn’t fit to render the theory invalid. That’s never happened. However, a wide variety of studies seeking to expand on the theory have taught us a lot about how it happened. Coming to understand genetics, for example, is helping to build understanding of how the process happened. We’ve developed understanding about possibilities about how life might have come into existence, even (though it’s well beyond my own comprehension) how the universe came into being. Creationists, by contrast, have not been able to offer any evidence to support their claims. They cannot offer a cogent narrative about how anything happened.
There’s another key difference: science seeks answers, whatever they may be and wherever they may lie. Creationists, by definition, cannot do that – they have an awesome that they must support, and so they must disregard any evidence to the contrary (which means basically all evidence). That’s why “creation science” is an oxymoron.
Seems Nick you are making a lot of assumptions without and confirmation sadly you remind me of my almost 30 years as an Atheist . Like you I had all the arguments down pat but of course no proof to confirm what I was claiming which Creation Scientists have, but of course they are not the only Scientist that have proven The Big Bang and Evolution to have no basis in reality there are indeed many, perhaps you would like me to supply some more links but then do you really want proof or would you prefer to stay with your own reasoning, logic and imagination or others even though you have nothing to confirm them, sad for you but True.
Kind regards Anne
To which theory, exactly, do you refer, Anne? I think, as I pointed out to Fred earlier, you’re mixing up the actual definition of the world “theory” with the colloquial use, something that creationist’s ringleaders are happy to have you do.
Frankly, I’m not going to waste my time on readings from a Young Earth Creationist website, because their arguments are generally laughable. That, sadly, is all you can expect from a group with a premise that is so utterly ridiculous.
Gary December 31, 2011 @ 4:22 am says WOW, just Wow. We now watch stars and planets forming (we watch them) and yet Earth was made by your god.
Wow Gary according to your assumptions I’m also one of those who is suppose to be blind, so let me ask you where is your evidence, like so many whose religion is Secular Science you are talking about a Theory that has yet to be proven, what the Hubble saw is not what they first claimed … for factual report please click these links http://creation.com/astronomy-and-astrophysics-questions-and-answers http://creation.com/letters-to-the-editor-191 and for full coverage follow their links.
Kind regards Anne.
WOW, just Wow.
Freddy says Atheists are spiritually blind. And it’s true, to a point. But I’ve read so many comments here and on other blogs and websites, that just amaze me at the blindness faith gives many people. Science, it appears to me, is, after so so many years, still the enemy of religion. We now watch stars and planets forming (we watch them) and yet Earth was made by your god.
Guys, I can’t cope with illogical arguments, so I’ll sign off here and not pester you anymore. Peace and have a great new year – Remember, He’s watching you and knows what your thinking, so think carefully or you’ve had it.
Hi Freddy, thank you for joining up with me I’m not sure how you found me but I’m pleased you did, I have had a Ministry to Atheists for some time and yes it’s indeed heart breaking, I could handle their abuse when directed at me but not when they slandered my Lord. I enjoyed your messages and I agree even when I showed them proof that God is a reality through the Scriptures they rejected it … surprising but I had a few claim that there was no God but then claimed He was cruel and vengeful ..yes they are indeed very confused or just hard hearted as you shared.
Thanks again – Christian Love Anne
Thank you Cathy, I will check it out. Wow, I can’t believe all these things, I’m just sitting on my computer and write some things that I think about and I have made friends on the blog that I treasure. Thank you so much. Freddy.
Send from Freddy’s iPhone
I have nominated you for the Candle Lighter Award! It is on my site for you!
Can you actually prove any of those claims? No. Thus, we dismiss then.
Thanks, I met Walid, he spoke at my church some time back. We have a former Muslim from Egypt at my church, he has a ministry called Open the Gates. He also wrote a book about his journey.http://otg.cccm.com
Amen to that Noel. Thank you for reading and commenting. Have a blessed new year.
Thank you my friend. Wishing you a happy and blessed new year.
I follow this site also. http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com. He had Shoebat’s conference on Islam a while back. It’s on youtube,
Uploaded by 1001Phoenix on Aug 7, 2009
DVD with three hours of Walid’s teaching on prophecy:
I was astounded about what he revealed. He is a convert from Islam, a palestinian. Ivar is a Christian Jew. I just thought if you like you may check it out. Some say Ivar is to radical. I don’t. I liked your post.
Thank you very much. Wishing you a happy and blessed new year.
AMEN!!!!!! Well said!
Keep at it Freddy!
Wow, excellent post Freddy.
I like your post media4life. The atheist do not understand that there is only one religion and that is the religion of Jesus Christ. They do not understand that their life depend on God. He made the oxygen they breathe. God made science possible. Thanks for sharing.