I had some very interesting discussions after writing two relating articles about faith verses works. Is a person saved by faith alone or does he or she have to do something to earn their salvation?
I believe that the scriptures are very clear that people are saved by grace through faith and not of works. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Eph 2:8,9.
Now to me it can’t get any clearer than that. Paul wrote this so that no one can boast about what they did in order for God to save them from wrath.
One person was bringing up repentance, he wrote that repentance is part of salvation, which means that the repenting person is actively involved in the salvation process. Is that really so, do people have to repent before they are considered saved? Repentance means a change of mind/heart. I believe that it is the work of the Holy Spirit, He is in the world to convict people of their sin. Some receive it and some will reject the truth. My pastor once gave a nice analogy about repentance.
When the Babylonians invaded the land of Israel, they took captives and transported them to Babylon which was in what is now modern-day Iraq. The Babylonians not only took the people, they burned down their homes to the ground, so that there was nothing for them to come back to. That is what believers should do, burn down their homes, spiritually speaking.
The question is, does repentance come before salvation and can we consider repentance as work? I believe that repentance must come first. There are several verses that would back up that believe. Jesus spoke of repentance many times in the gospels. “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”Mark 1:15. Jesus confirmed that a person must repent, which means the acknowledgment that they have missed the mark and are sinners in need of forgiveness.
Luke wrote: “Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38. At first glance that sounds like that a person needs to repent before receiving the Holy Spirit, i.e to be “born again.”
Peter was talking to the Jews that had rejected Jesus as their Messiah. It was the day of Pentecost. Many believed that day, about 3000 souls were saved. The crowd listened to Peter as he preached that Jesus is the promised Messiah and many had a change of mind (repentance). They believed the words of Peter and realized that Jesus was the Messiah that the patriarchs and prophets spoke about. That change of heart was a genuine repentance which resulted of the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
Question, was that change of mind the works of man or was it the Holy Spirit that convicted the crowd? It is interesting, because in the very next verse, Peter said this: “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:39. “As many as the Lord will call.”
Sounds like it is God’s work. He is the initiator and He is the One that saves. Did these 3000 people do any kind of works or did they simply believed God through the message preached by Peter? Where did the faith that they all had come from? Did they earn it or do something that triggered faith in them? I believe that is was the work of the Holy Spirit that convicted the people and brought about a change of heart. They heard and believed the truth.
Paul said in the book of Ephesians, Faith is a gift of God. It is all God’s sovereign work and I believe there is nothing anyone can do to either earn salvation or work for their salvation. People are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and in Him alone. No one can please God by their works. Abraham had no works, yet God declared Abraham as righteous. “And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.” Gen 15:6.
Abraham was justified because of his faith which was given to him by God. Hebrews chapter 11 is known as the Faith chapter or hall of faith. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham are on that list. Did Abraham do any work in order to be declared righteous? Was it works or his faith that made him righteous before God. It was faith in God and His promises that gave Abraham a righteous standing before God. Abraham had nothing to boast about, it was all God’s action and all the glory belongs to Him.
The Bible is very clear about that our works cannot please God. “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” Heb 11:6.
“Diligently seek Him.” I believe that God works differently in the life of every person. Some may hear the gospel preached at a crusade or at a church or maybe from a person that witnessed to them. They hear the message and believe and at that moment the Holy Spirit comes into them, making His abode. They heard and believed, changed their minds and received the gift of salvation. It was the Holy Spirit that worked in them and brought the conviction of their sins. God drew them and they repented.
I can only speak about my own experience that I had on that day when I received the Lord. I did not go to a church or crusade. Nobody witnessed to me. I hit rock bottom about 6 years ago from alcohol abuse and I sat on my patio all by myself, feeling miserable. I remember it so vividly, I cried out, “God if you exist, please help me. I do not want to be like this any longer. This is not me!”
From that moment on my life changed. Something happened that was so amazing. I believe that a genuine repentance happened that day that came from the heart. I did not say, “I repent. I repent.” I do believe that God saw my heart that morning and that it was a genuine admittance that I was wrong and I was in need of a Savior. God began a good work in me from that day on, I never had a desire of drinking again. I firmly believe that the Lord took that desire from me completely. I ask the Lord to forgive me for all the things I had done. I was forgiven and born again that day and fell in love with Jesus my Lord and Savior.
To be honest, I didn’t know much about repentance, sin or anything else that the Bible teaches. I didn’t know about justification, sanctification, let alone the grace and mercy of God. All I know is that the Lord came into my life that day and I never have looked back. How was I saved? By my works? I certainly had no works to boast about. I can’t say that I was an atheist or agnostic. I believed that there was a God, but I never paid any attention to Him or knew much about Him.
On that day something happened and I know that the Holy Spirit came into my life and changed me. Where did this faith come from? Not from me, I had no faith before, it was a gift of God. I believe that God knew that this day of my surrender would come long before I was even born. I lived a life seeking my own pleasures for 46 years and when I hit rock bottom, He was there. God is always there, all a person needs to do is to make a U-turn and there He is.
On that day I was justified because I believed God, just as Abraham did so many years before me. Justification is instant and cannot be changed or improved on. Sanctification is a life long process in which the Holy Spirit works in the lives of every believer to conform them more and more into the image of Christ. That I agree requires participation of the believer, the willingness to surrender all to Him. That is the sanctification process, the Holy Spirit working in the life of a believer.
Sanctification can be painful at times, the Holy Spirit is pointing out what needs to be purged and done away with in our lives. Sometimes we may put up a fight to surrender it all, but one thing is for sure, the Holy Spirit is patient and longsuffering, but He will never let us get away with what is not right in the sight of God for long. He will sanctify us. Sanctification is a process, the Holy Spirit teaches us and shows us what needs to be purged out of our lives. This is the continuous work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, the sanctification of every believer.
We need to see things from a spiritual level rather than from the human level. God gave us spiritual understanding and the mind of Christ. God wants us the be holy as He is Holy. He will complete that work. “being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;…” Phl 1:6. Again, not our work but His work. He began the good work and He will finish it.
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” Phl 2:12, 13.
I know that some may not agree with what I’m writing and I am not being dogmatic about this whole issue. I do believe however that it is not us but God that has done it all for us. We have nothing to boast about, not about our own goodness or how wonderful we might think we are and how we deserved to be saved by God. It is by His grace and because He loved us. He loved us so much that He became flesh to become one of us and to die and shed His blood on the cross. That is unconditional love and what could I compare that with? Before I say I did this and I did that, I look at the cross and say; Jesus did that. The thief on the cross? No works and nothing to boast about, yet he was saved by the Lord. The thief had a change of mind that was genuine and from the heart. That in my opinion is what it is all about, the heart. People in the world have a heart problem with a God shaped hole, a void that only God can fill. The Holy Spirit calls people to repent, some will hear His voice and some will not.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” John 3:16.
- Faith or works? (media4lifeministries.com)
- Fig Leaf Religion (media4lifeministries.com)
55 thoughts on “Repentance before Salvation?”
@ saved by grace
Thank you for answering. If you wish, we can continue on my site so Freddy’s post doesn’t get clutterd with discussions about non-related topics.
@”Oh yeah, and don’t leave out verse 18 either!!!”
yes that too is included. verse 18
@”And also, back to you leaving out verse 18, can you drink deadly things and be ok?”
nope, we wont live.
but there are few people who can drink poison and live.
@”Does that apply to you my friend? Can you speak Russian, Japanese, Arabic or anyother
language that you didn’t learn in school or was taught by someone who speaks them
believe it or not, I learned english not from school nor was taught by there,
only on the later part I learned the proper sentences, but then again not perfect.
how? watching american TV and movies
I can understand and speak a bit Korean too. yes by wathicng koreans show.
but none as a result of baptism. so yes, you have a point.
so If my english sounds rude or my sentence sounds offensive, please forgive me. 🙂
@”I will continue to talk with Freddy about the topic that we’re discussing if he wants to,
but my conversation with you is pretty much over because your comments are very immature.
@ “saved by grace”
Oh yeah, and don’t leave out verse 18 either!!! I always find it odd how the only miraculous things that people like to talk about is the speaking of tongues while ignoring the rest of them. And since you asked, I speak English, but I’m not perfect at it.
You do understand that Jesus said “new” tongues there, right? That meant understandable languages that the person had never been able to speak before. Does that apply to you my friend? Can you speak Russian, Japanese, Arabic or anyother language that you didn’t learn in school or was taught by someone who speaks them.
If you say that you can speak in an understandable language that you didn’t learn yourself then I would love to hear you talk to someone who speaks the language natively and not any language that you already speak in so no “cheating” will take place. People that talk in “tongues” today don’t like to do these things normally. Read Acts 2:6-12 for a biblical example that Jesus was talking about and not a pretend one that most refer to today.
And also, back to you leaving out verse 18, can you drink deadly things and be ok? Can you pick up poisonous snakes with the fangs still attached and without gloves and not have to worry about getting bitten. Can you go to the hospital and heal sick people? Or can you only speak in tongues “that only you and God can understand”???
I don’t expect you to answer my questions since you haven’t answered even ONE yet. I will continue to talk with Freddy about the topic that we’re discussing if he wants to, but my conversation with you is pretty much over because your comments are very immature.
@”and if you meant it then shame on you for talking about the
covenant purchased by the blood of Christ Himself like that!
AMEN! The blood of Jesus alone saves!
thank you for pointing it out that no kind or amount of work or baptism can save
@”Belief first, then baptism (Mark 16:16). I don’t see what’s so complicated about that?”
Please dont omit verse 17
“And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues”
Will “the baptized” speak in tongues?
do you speak in tongues?
You talked about people waiting to be baptized. I gave you scripture that showed that people don’t need to wait and they didn’t wait in the Bible. I don’t get it. Now you keep talking about people waiting and you even bring up some hypothetical “dessert ” situation. Grasping for straws and ignoring the obvious.
You may not have meant “me and my congregation” when you mentioned the Sabbath and foods, but you still called me and the congregation that I attend “legalistic” despite the fact that time and time again I gave you scripture after scripture that showed that water baptism was given by God, preached by the apostles, prophets and God’s people in the church, and included by the Holy Spirit in the scriptures in such a way that no one who wants to understand it can keep from doing so.
You called me “legalistic” yet you admit that your congregation follows the traditions and commandments of men by baptizing people only once every three months – despite the fact that the scriptures show that people were baptized immediately after their confession in Christ. I’ll stick with God’s word over man’s directions.
Tell me Freddy, is it not legalistic to say that someone must confess Jesus according to your accusation against me? (John 12:42, Romans 10:10, Matthew 10:32,33) After all, you believe that a person must confess Christ right? You said, “I believe as I said it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and i know that I was saved the minute I confessed Christ to be my Lord because I knew that the Holy Spirit came into my life.” Now, Freddy, was it the minute that you believed or the minute that you confessed when you were saved??? Was if faith alone or faith plus your confession? Did you say some man-made prayer too?
With all due respect, you keep talking about your feelings, your thoughts and your experiences – but you don’t talk about what the gospel says. Faith doesn’t come from our feelings, thoughts, and experiences – it comes from God’s word (Romans 10:17) and a saving faith comes from obeying it. People can be sincere, but they can still be sincerely wrong (Romans 10:1,2)
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” (Galatians 3:26,27)
Paul didn’t say anything here about baptism being legalistic did he? Now read these verses Freddy and tell me when does a person put on Christ which makes them heirs according the promise made to Abraham? (vs. 29) Did the Galatians put on Christ when they believed? Or when they were baptized? What does “legalistic” Paul say? How did they become children of the promise through faith? What put them in Christ to make them a part of Abraham’s lineage?
I wonder what you would have told Jesus when He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21) Is that also “legalistic” Freddy?
@ saved by grace
You said, “It seems that the covenant the Thief was under was better than ours.”
I honestly can’t believe you said that. I think you really need to do some studying and reflection if you even half way meant that…and if you meant it then shame on you for talking about the covenant purchased by the blood of Christ Himself like that!
As far as your comment about 1 Corinthians 1:17 goes, I already answered that with Freddy. Look at and read that verse in the context instead of trying to make sound like some “anti baptism” verse. Belief first, then baptism (Mark 16:16). I don’t see what’s so complicated about that? The complication comes from telling someone that a person doesn’t “have to” be baptized but they “need to” be baptized instead of just listening to the plain directions of God’s word.
I hope both of you have a good night and God bless in your studies.
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”
– 1 Corinthians 1:17
Grace indeed is the gospel in whom Paul preached to us. not about baptism nor the law nor circumsission
Amen to that. The gospel is very simple, people are trying to make it complicated. What if someone gets saved in the middle of the dessert with no water around?
Me too, I’m having a hard time finding the reply button after all these comments. At least we can agree to disagree on certain issues without becoming angry at each other. I didn’t necessarily mean your church when it comes to the sabbath and the foods, but there are those who teach that Christians need to observe the sabbath. Personally I do not agree with your view on water baptism and I do believe that the Bible speaks of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Take my story in to consideration, the day I surrendered my life to the Lord, without going to a church or being witnessed to. It was the Holy Spirit that was pulling on me, maybe my whole life and the moment my heart was softened and i cried out to God to save me He came into my heart. I didn’t go to any church after that day and it was not until a few weeks later that I started to attend a Calvary Chapel. I did however buy a Bible and studied His word, reading hours and hours each day. I didn’t do a water baptism, which I believe is an outward confession as believers, a symbolism of death, burial and resurrection, the old man buried until a few month later. Look at for example communion, some teach that the wine/grape juice becomes the actual blood of Christ and the bread His body, I think it is called transubstantiation. I for one do not agree with that and I do believe that communion is done in remembrance of the last supper and what Jesus said that night. “do this in remembrance of Me.” The same way I believe goes for water baptism, it is a symbolism. I did not get baptized for 6 month after I was born again of the Spirit. Does that mean that I was not saved? Or if I had died a couple of days after I confessed Jesus, would I not have been with Him in heaven and ended up in Hell? I do believe that believers should be baptized in water, but I do not believe that the water baptism is what saves them. At my church we do baptisms 4 times a year, we go out to the Ocean and baptize new believers. According to your belief, none of them are saved until the received the water baptism. So if they are not saved until they are baptized, they would have no hope of eternal life. I believe as I said it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and i know that I was saved the minute I confessed Christ to be my Lord because I knew that the Holy Spirit came into my life. That is what i believe and we can go back and forth on this but since I was baptized several years ago, I have according to your beliefs nothing to worry about anyhow. Wishing you a blessed Resurrection day.
It seems that the covenant the Thief was under was better than ours.
Why would a person want to wait to be baptized???
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.” (Acts 8:35-38)
“And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.” (Acts 16:33)
I could go on and on. Why would a person wait to be baptized. Today is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2; Hebrews 3:15, 4:7), not next week. According to Galatians 3:26,27 when does a person put on Christ? When they believed or when they were baptized. The answer is too clear.
What Paul was saying in Corinthians is it doesn’t matter who does the baptizing. The Corinthians were using it as dividing issue which was ridiculous. A person must hear and believe the gospel before they are baptized or they are just getting wet. That’s why Paul said he came to preach. Preach first – then baptize the believers (Mark 16:15,6; Acts 18:8…by the way, Acts 18:8 is talking about the cery Corinthians Paul wrote his letter to).
To say that teaching that water baptsim is essential for salvation is legalistic is like saying Hebrews 5:9 is legalistic. “…He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him”. Paul himself said in Romans 16:25-26 – “Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for OBEDIENCE to the faith…” Paul mentioned obedience…are you saying he was legalistic. Submitting to God in baptism is not legalistic and neither is saying that someone must believe despite the fact that there are some who will even try to say that.
It amazes me that people who teach others to say some made-up man-made prayer to “accept” Jesus doesn’t say that they are earning his/her salvation even though they are “doing” something other than “just” believing. It amazes how people throw around the label “legalistic” when something doesn’t agree with faith only like baptism but not with the “sinner’s prayer”.
For example, Romans 10:13 – “For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” isn’t legalistic as long as person says its talking about faith only (which it’s not, all you have to do is read verse 14 where it says – How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?). But the moment a person says calling upon the name of the Lord is something other than believing (which it must be according to the context) then it’s legalism??? This thinking goes squarely against what we read in Acts 22:16 where baptism is a part of calling upon the name of the Lord – “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Why did you bring up the Sabbath and foods??? Where in the NT does it say that the church must observe these things?
As far your point about the trinity goes, the trinity can be found in the scriptures – (Matthew 28:19; Titus 3:4-6; 1 John 5:6-7; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-16; Romans 1:3,4), but faith alone can’t be found one time. Why is that? Ephesians says “by grace through faith” not “faith alone” as some try to make it say.
Baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ (His authority) is not the same thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit or receiving a miraculous measure from Him (Acts 19:4-6). Finding the salvation of the gospel is simple – hear the gospel, believe the gospel, repent of your sins, confess Christ and put on Christ (the new man) in the waters of baptism. Look at the conversation we had on the previous post for plenty of scripture references.
I’m enjoying our conversation. God bless in your studies, Freddy.
@Eugene. If water baptism is a requirement in order to be saved i.e being born again, than that would mean that a person that receives Christ as Lord and Savior would have to be immediately baptized in water to be considered saved. So basically you are saying if a person hears the gospel, believes it and ask God for forgiveness, that person is not saved until he or she are immersed into water? That person who received Christ by faith, let’s say waits for a week until the water baptism, does that mean he or she was not saved until the water baptism?
I do not believe that and I don’t think that the bible teaches that. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes inside of every believer that receives Christ as Lord and Savior that saves the person not water.
Paul didn’t think that water baptism was essential unto salvation. He would be considered a blasphemer after writing this: “I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.” 1Cr 1:14-17.
Peter writes this about baptism: There is also an anti-type which now saves us–baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,….” 1Pe 3:21.
If you or your church believes that water baptism is required for salvation, than you are in a legalistic church and if they teach that it is required do they also teach that the Sabbath has to be observed and you can only eat certain things etc? That is legalistic and not biblical based theology.
To the issue of “saved by faith alone.” You said that that is not written in the Bible and thus invalid. The word trinity is nowhere to be found in the Bible either, but the concept is clearly taught. Just because a word is not found in the Bible like Trinity does not mean that the Trinity is invalid and false teaching, likewise with the word “alone” the concept is taught.
*Sorry, my sentence that I began about the Sabbath didn’t get finished. I meant to say the Sabbath and the Law of Moses has nothing to do with this conversation.
Jesus said “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” Not, “He that believes and keeps the Sabbath” or “He that believes and keeps the Law of Moses.”
My friend, I said what I said about your question because
1) The Bible does not say one time “by grace through faith alone” so that cannot be the answer.
2) You keep insisting that baptism is a work of man so I will not answer a question that makes it seem like I’m saying that a person can earn his/her salvation, and plus you already know what I teach concerning baptism. Let me give you the words out of your own mouth – “you persistently insist baptism as a requirement for salvation.”
That proves you were asking a loaded question to try and prove a personal point instead of a scriptural one. No unfair “A or B” question is going to help. I have given scripture after scripture, and I will continue to let the scripture speak about the subject (1 Peter 4:11).
Baptism is a work of God and not man – He designed it, He gives it the power through the blood of Christ, and He made it a part of calling upon the name of the Lord. When a person submits to God’s command that in no way earns their salvation.
“But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:4,5) What “washing” that regenerates is Paul talking about? The same one that washes away sin (Acts 22:16), the same one that cleanses (Ephesians 5:25), the same that allows us to bury the old man and put on the new man to be born again (Romans 6:1-5; John 3:3-5). If you want to call that washing a “work that earns our salvation” then that’s up to you, but the scriptures says that it’s not.
In response to your answer to my question, I am simply trying to get you to see that faith alone does not save as you can see in the scripture reference I gave you. They refused to confess Jesus…now, what do the scriptures say about an unwillingness to confess Jesus? But you couldn’t answer it because you’re so adamant about sticking to your “faith alone” position. Here’s another verse that simply shows the futility of faith alone – “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” (James 2:19)
Your statement about the Sabbath, about
If you think I’m getting angry or anything – don’t. Because I’m not. I have answered all the questions you asked me, but you didn’t answer mine. That’s why I pressed you on it.
At least I can thank you for discussing it, because many will not.
@”If you are going to try and stick with this argument
then you are showing your lack of Bible knowledge.”
@”You have a poor understanding of what the Bible means
when it talks about a faith that saves ”
@”You’re twisting Peter’s statment in Acts”
I was merely trying to learn from you by asking questions and posting verses.
But you kept on accusing and accusing me. I am not sure if this is your teaching method
but i find it offensive.
I would rather have an empty brain and a full heart
than a full brain with an empty heart
Man was NOT made for the sabbath, but sabbath for Man
Man was NOT made for the Law, but the Law was made for Man
Man was NOT made for baptism. but Baptism for Man
you persistently insist baptism as a requirement for salvation.
and I made my question simple by asking; is baptism is part of salvation
and you answered “C– none of the above.” now things have become complicated.
How are we saved now?
Grace through Faith alone?
Grace through Faith + Baptism?
and you say. None of the above?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
I should have said
Faith does not save. Jesus saves
Baptism does not save. Jesus saves
@”“Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees
they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;” (John 12:42)
Please tell, according to the scriptures, were these people saved? They obviously believed
or the scriptures would not have said so.”
were these people saved?
I could have said Faith saves earlier, but the later tone of your words tells me. No.
Faith does not save.
Baptism does not save.
Jesus alone saves.
The answer is “C – none of the above.” Your question ignores what the rest of scripture says.
I challenge you to show me where the Bible says, “GRACE THROUGH FAITH ALONE” like you just tried to make it say. You just added to God’s word my friend because you won’t find it one time.
Mark 16:16 still says, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
Romans 10:10 still says, “For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Acts 17:30 still says, “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, ”
Hebrews 5:9 still says, “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,”
You have a poor understanding of what the Bible means when it talks about a faith that saves – try reading Hebrews 11 and then tell me that faith alone pleases God. When that crowd on Pentecost day asked Peter and the rest of the apostles what they should do, Peter didn’t say “NOTHING – YOU BELIEVE AND THAT’S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO”. He said what he said under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God my friend – “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38)
I challenge you to answer my question that you keep ignoring – “Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;” (John 12:42) Please tell, according to the scriptures, were these people saved? They obviously believed or the scriptures would not have said so. Here’s an excellent example of the faith alone you keep talking about…does it save according to the scriptures, saved by grace?
Please take the sum of God’s and not the some that proves nothing.
keeping it short. This is what I really want to know from you
are we saved by
A “Grace through Faith alone”
B “Grace through Faith Plus Baptism”
A? or B?
Now you’re just starting to grasp at straws and are completely ignoring the context of the verses you are quoting. You have posted way too much twisting of scriptures for me to untwist in short order, but I will do my best.
Don’t confuse the essentiality of water baptism with the essentiality of miraculous works. The people in Samaria were saved by obeying the gospel, but they could not do anything miraculous until the apostles came and laid hands on them (Acts 8:12-17). If you are going to try and stick with this argument then you are showing your lack of Bible knowledge.
I love Romans 10:9-13; especially when one handles it truthfully. First off, Paul was talking to people who had called upon the name of the Lord (Romans 6:1-6) How does one “call upone the name of the Lord”? Paul himself was told what calling upon the name included – “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’” (Acts 22:16)
Is it the blood of Christ that cleanses? Absolutely! (Revelation 1:5) How do we access that blood is the question! Would you accuse Ananias of telling Paul to wash away something that was already washed away??? It was the blood of Christ through the water’s of baptism where a person is baptized into Christ, where a person put’s on the life and righteousness of Christ, and the new person is born of the water and the Spirit of God that Paul/Saul found his forgiveness. (Galatians 3:26,27; Romans 6:1-6; John 3:1-5)
You’re twisting Peter’s statment in Acts. His topic was faith in Christ or works in Moses! Read Acts 13:39,40. For a person to be saved and have his/her sins washed away they must believe the gospel first (Mark 16:16; John 3:16-18). That’s one reason, among many others, why you don’t baptize babies.
The baptism followed by the apostles and the rest of God’s people for the remission of sins was water baptism (Matthew 28:18-19; Ephesians 5:25; Acts 2:38). Water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two different things.
When a person submits to God through water baptism, God works on that person on the inside (Colossians 2:12,13). If baptism is nothing but an “outward observance” as you are saying, then Paul had it all wrong when he said God works on a person through faith IN the waters of baptism as that person in buried in Christ and is brought UP to walk in newness of life (Romans 1:1-6; Colossians 2:12-13). In other words Paul says that God uses water baptism to bury the old person and bring up the new person – i.e. being born again through the water and the Spirit (Colossians 2:12; John 3:1-5).
You keep using “belief and believe” as if the context is talking about a mental recognition alone. A saving belief is more than just mental acknowledgement. See James 2:19 and Hebrews 5:9.
I have clearly answered your questions, but you still didn’t answer mine. I said…Faith alone (simply saying I believe in Jesus and praying some made up “sinner’s prayer”) will never save – “Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;” (John 12:42) Please tell, according to the scriptures, were these people saved? They obviously believed or the scriptures would not have said so. Here’s an excellent example of faith alone…does it save according to the scriptures, saved by grace?
Thanks for your time and willingness to talk.
@”And I noticed that he left out one of the plainest verses in all of the NT
when it comes to baptism and salvation – Mark 16:16″
I have no idea why. My fault. I was too lazy to comment.
@”Faith alone (simply saying I believe in Jesus and praying some made
up “sinner’s prayer”) will never save”
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”
– Mark 16:16-17
It says “And these signs shall follow them that believe”
they shall speak with new tongues
those who do not speak in tongues, are not save?
because it says clearly
“these signs shall follow them that believe;
they shall speak with new tongues;”
are we not saved by grace through faith? are there still works to do?
not only some christians do not speak in tongues, they despise it too.
“9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord,
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness,
and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek;
for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
– Romans 10:9-13
@”It amazes me that people who reject that baptism for the remission of sins”
for the forgiveness of sins. is it the only the Blood of Jesus?
Or Jesus’ blood + plus Baptism?
For this is my blood of the new covenant,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins
– Matthew 26:28
Peter mentions baptism
“Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
– Acts 2:38
then later on
“there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them,
“Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you,
that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
“And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit,
just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith.
“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of
the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
“But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”
– Acts 15:7-11
“Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in
Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
When they heard this,
they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and
they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. There were in all about twelve men.”
– Acts 19:4-7
so going back to Mark 16:16
” He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; ”
– Mark 16:16-17
so What baptism are you saying?
Is it Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Is it Water Baptism?
“Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance,
telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him,
that is, in Jesus.”
When they heard this,
THEY WERE BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and
THEY BEGAN SPEAKING with TONGUES and prophesying”
so Mark 16:16-17 is realized in Acts 19:4-7
Speaking in tongues in now necessary! or is it?
so sorry for long comment…
– grace and peace
I say this respectfully, but I say this very plainly – everything the person said who wrote the article was very weak scripturally. They are the same excuses I used to give and they do not take all of scripture in to account.
And I noticed that he left out one of the plainest verses in all of the NT when it comes to baptism and salvation – Mark 16:16 – “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” So simple it can’t be refuted. Jesus did not say “he who believes will saved and then is baptized” did He? But that’s exactly what some try to put in His mouth.
Faith alone (simply saying I believe in Jesus and praying some made up “sinner’s prayer”) will never save – “Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;” (John 12:42)
Please tell, according to the scriptures, were these people saved? They obviously believed or the scriptures would not have said so. Here’s an excellent example of faith alone…does it save according to the scriptures, saved by grace?
Thanks for your time.
i hope you don’t mine me chiming a bit
rather than post my understanding on “baptism is requirement for salvation”
heres a link
– grace and peace
Thank you Eugene. I will again study the concordance and check some commentaries. Have a good night as well.
Send from Freddy’s iPhone
Here’s a short article that deals with the issue of grace and conversion if you would like to read it – http://tinyurl.com/chbhdme
Have a good night, Freddy.
Thanks again for your willingness to reply Freddy.
You’re trying to use the thief on the cross as an example of what a person today must do to become a Christian.
As I have said before, the thief on the cross is not an example for what one must do today to become a Christian. First – the thief lived under a different covenant than we do (Hebrews 9:16,17). Second – the thief did not have to confess that Jesus was raised from the dead (Romans 10:9,10). Third – the thief was not saved by faith alone; he reviled Jesus at first but repented (Matthew 27:41-44; Luke 23:39-41). Lastly, Jesus gave the command for baptism for the remission of sins after the thief was dead (Mark 16:15,16). That settles the comparison between what a person must do to be saved today and what the thief did.
It amazes me that people who reject that baptism for the remission of sins is essential to salvation do so because they say it’s a “work of man.” To say such is to speak without a proper knowledge of God’s will. Water baptism is a work of God, not man (Colossians 2:11-14). The Bible is too plain – baptism is essential for salvation because the Spirit of God says so; not because I or the “church of Christ” says so (Acts 2:38, 22:16; Romans 6:1-6; Galatians 3:26,27; Ephesians 5:25-27; John 3:1-5; 1 Peter 3:21 – plus many more). So many people reject something that the scriptures talk about over and over, but yet they accept saying the sinner’s prayer (something completely made up by men and women and foreign to the scriptures) as not being a work that earns their salvation.
“Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (John 6:28,29) Jesus told them that God expected them to believe – that it was their responsibility to do so.
Freddy, my whole point is that salvation is conditional because God will hold us responsilble for how we react to the gospel (hebrews 5:8,9). If salvation were unconditional and only God chose who was going to be saved without any responsibility from us, then by default that would mean those who are not “chosen to be saved” are “chosen to be condemned” through no choice of their own – and if that’s true it doesn’t make much sense to preach the gospel to people who have no ability to believe (Mark 16:15,16).
That’s why I asked if it’s “all of God and none of us” when it comes to salvation, then is the same true when it comes to being spiritually lost? If not, why not? Acting by faith doesn’t earn one’s salvation but if a person doesn’t ACT by faith their faith (faith alone) will not save them.
“16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” (Hebrews 3:16-19)
“Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.” (Hebrews 4:1-2)
Thanks for your time, Freddy. God bless in your studies.
Eugene, I said in my post that repentance i.e change of mind is essential to salvation. A person hears the gospel and believes the words they heard and had a change of mind. Now, you could call that an active part of the person that comes to faith and believes that God exist and that Christ is the Savior who died for them on the cross. This conviction I believe came from the works of the Holy Spirit. The person that had a change of mind was convicted and realized that he or she fell short of the glory of God and are in need of a Savior. They saw and knew that they had missed the mark i.e they are sinners. This conviction did not come by their works, neither did they go out to find that conviction. It was God that drew them, it was God that began to do a good work in them. It was God the Holy Spirit Who is in the world that brought them to repentance. People believe by faith, but even faith is a gift of God. Some hear the word but do not believe. Some hear the word and believe and receive the truth and are saved because their hearts were open. Some people just harden their hearts, the refuse to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. A person with a softened heart who believes does so because the Holy Spirit has done the work in them. He drew them and they were convicted of their sins. I don’t think that responding is works. No one can earn their salvation. It is a gift of God. There is no works that anyone did to earn salvation, believing is not by a persons work, believing came by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Once a person believes by faitt, which is a gift, the Holy Spirit comes inside of them and dwells in their heart and begins the work of sanctification. That person is baptized in the Holy Spirit. I read on of your articles the one discussing the word “and”. It appears to me that you believe that water baptism is essential to ones salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is essential for salvation, being born again. Water baptism does not save. I do believe that a person should be baptized in water as symbol that they are followers of Christ and their old life has been buried and they rise to a new life, a rebirth. I noticed that you are a member of the church of Christ, which I believe that a person has to be baptized in water in order to be saved? The thief on the cross was not baptized in water and was saved. Is that what you believe that you have to do some kind of work e.g water baptism to be saved? I hope that this will answer the question you had. I believe that it is all God’s work and not mine. I have nothing to boast about. All the glory belongs to Him. The great I AM.
In a response on your last post to me you never answered my question. Not only did you say it to me, but again on this post you said it in the last paragraph. In relation to salvation you said, “It is all Him, none of it us.”
So I asked you, “Is the same true for a person who is lost??? If not, why not?”
Repentance is essential to salvation – “Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:37,38)
Peter didn’t say “Nothing – it’s all been done for you.” God had made salvation available to them, but they had to act on it – they had to want it – they had to believe – they had to chose God – they had to be baptized for the remission of their sins.
If salvation is completely unconditional without any input and decision from mankind and only God has a part to play in it, then that by default means that those who are not saved are not saved because God has refused to “act” upon them. This idea is completely foreign to the scriptures (2 Peter 3:9).
Remember, responding to God’s word and meritting one’s salvation are TWO different things. Abraham responded by faith and obedience to God’s word and was justified by God’s grace, through his faith and obedience.
Jesus told his apostles, “…“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15,16 – http://wp.me/p20YNR-7K)
A PERSON must believe – it is there their choice to accept or reject the gospel call. And if they chose to accept it then in no way are they earning their salvation – it’s God’s gospel to begin with (Romans 1:16).
Looking forward to your response to my question I asked above.
“For the Law was given through Moses;
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
– John 1:17
the word “came” in greek is traced to “ginomai”
“ginomai” means “to become, and signifies a change of condition, state or place”
thats all i can say for now.
– grace and peace
Thank you Adrienne, wishing you a blessed week. Maranatha Lord Jesus.
Thanks a lot for your input! This is very interesting. I never heard that handle before. Would you care to explain?
This is a wonderful post, Freddy, as usual. 🙂
And I see that God is blessing you, as usual today as well… 😉
(hugs) Lovely writing, Freddy, and you make all of this so easily understood. Thank you, big brother.
@Noel Williams (prhayz)
“So, are you saying repentance is the same as grace?”
i hope you don’t mine me chiming a bit. 🙂
Grace is a person. Grace is Jesus
– grace and peace
@”I think all believers would agree that repentance is a good thing. It turns us from darkness to light, from evil to holy, from bondage to freedom. It is only by the power of God through the Holy Spirit that any heart can turn to Christ.”
Indeed! Grace turns us from darkness to light, from evil to holy, from bondage to freedom.
Just so you know, we are on the same page. I has a conversation recently with another blogger who saw repentance and grace differently.
God bless you.
I would say more that repentance is the result of grace. All the same–repentance is not possible without God. Every breath we breathe is a gift from God.
“He must increase, but I must decrease.” -John 3:30
“Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
It’s all about Him! Praise God and blessings to you! 🙂
So, are you saying repentance is the same as grace?
“When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” -Acts 11:18
“I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.” -1 Cor 3:6-7
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”
I think all believers would agree that repentance is a good thing. It turns us from darkness to light, from evil to holy, from bondage to freedom. It is only by the power of God through the Holy Spirit that any heart can turn to Christ.
“Your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” -1 Cor 1:5
If repentance is a change of heart, how can it be a gift from God?
I totally agree with you. the thief could have heard about Jesus.
Paul was so right when he said “faith comes by hearing and hearing the gospel (good news) about Jesus”
definitely something had change on that thief.
@ “I don’t understand why so many people want some kind of recognition of what they have done”
It is because they are obedient to the Law. they despise those who are saved without doing their part of obedience.
don’t get me wrong, obedience is a product. and the only obedience in the new covenant is “obedience of faith” the obedience that comes from faith.
I can include tons of scripture reference, but I know you know what I am saying.
@”It is God that saves and it is the finished work of Christ on the cross that make it possible to be reconciled to God. It is His work not ours. Jesus took the stripes, the beating and the pain. What did I do?”
awesome! so profound!
most believers today are
“fighting for victory when Jesus won it already”
“finishing a work when Jesus already completed it”
“defeating and enemy when Jesus defeated the enemy already”
in essence, We do nothing. we have no part.
the only work we do is “believe”
JOHN 6:29 (LEB)
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”
– grace and peace
@Freedomborn – i will reply here, for some reason i cant find the reply button on your previous comment.
@”…and you will be accountable so repent and turn from evil”
look at the bible verses in the original greek when you have time
ROMANS 3:25 (KJV)
” Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,
to declare his righteousness for the
Remission [Paresis in greek] or Passing Over of sins
that are past, through the forbearance of God; ”
MATTHEW 26:28 (KJV)
” For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the
Remission [Aphesis in greek] or Forgiveness of sins. ”
Paresis in greek or Passing Over means “suspension” or “passing over”
so Romans 3:25 – the remission here is PASSING OVER..
IT IS NOT ABOUT Forgiveness BUT rather PASSING OVER
Aphesis in greek or forgiveness has to do with the cleansing of sin by the blood of Jesus
so Matthew 26:28 – speaks about the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus
sometimes it totally makes sense to check the verses in the original greek.
now we read the Romans 3:25-26
ROMANS 3:25-26 (NEW LIVING TRANSLATION)
“25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin.
People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life,
shedding his blood.
This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he
HELD BACK [Paresis] and DID NOT PUNISH THOSE WHO SINNED IN THE TIMES PAST,
26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time.
God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just,
and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. ”
Paul was not talking about the remission or forgiveness of sins.
He was rather talking about the “Passing Over” of sins in the past.
This verse clearly does not say anything about “only your past sins are forgiven”
rather it tells us “why sins were not dealt in the past (before Jesus death)”
can you show me another verse where it says only our past sins forgiven?
can you tell me what this verse means?
” but now he has appeared once at the END OF THE AGES for the
removal of sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
@ you said “When we are Born again we no longer sin”
so You no longer sin?
and you Judge me by saying
@”you will be accountable so repent and turn from evil”
dont you know that you sinned by judging me?
but dont worry, I have a point why i said that. read below
1 JOHN 1:7 (LEB)
7 But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus his Son [Katharizó] Cleanses us from all sin.
Are you in the Light? Or Darkness?
If we are in the Light, then what are we cleansed of?
do you know in greek, the tense for Cleanses is “Present Continuous” tense?
Continuos cleansing. it means, the moment you sin, you are cleansed.
Unless you mean something else when you said “you no longer sin”,
well born again people still sins.
in fact you will hate me or judge me for saying those stuff to you,
you will say like “you must turn from evil. you must need understanding”.
or “many depend on their own understanding today”
therefore we all “Miss the Mark” – hamartia in greek means “sin”.
but sin its not imputed to you or me. you are still righteouss before God.
and the blood of Jesus cleanses us of all sins, that is if we are in the light.
so relax. dont rush and say I am this and that.
lets focus building relationships.
I prefer a full heart and empty head, than a full head with an empty heart.
– grace and peace
You did not answer my question of which church you attend.
Send from Freddy’s iPhone
Please show me Freddy in Scripture where it confirms that we can continue to sin after Salvation even if you read 1 John 2 in context you will see that if we sinned we have Jesus an advocate but if we continue to sin it shows we are not saved.
What you need Freddy is to ask God is to help you understand the difference between weaknesses, shortcomings etc and Sin.
The thief had a change of mind …yes…. He repented, God drews His Children but He does not change their mind that would be going against their free will, Jesus knew on the cross which theif would repent but He didn’t make him repent.
Christian Love Anne.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Saved by grace you need to ask for God’s wisdom instead of trusting in your own understanding or others then you will understand the things of God 1 Corinthians 2: 9-16
When we are Born again we no longer sin, you can reject this Truth , you can try and explain it away , you can ignor it but it will remain and you will be accountable so repent and turn from evil and do good by the emowering of the Holy Spirit. We don’t earn our Salvation but we show we have it.
1John3:1-11 (9) No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
There are many more Scriptures that confirm this truth my e-mail address is in my About if you would like them.
Christian Love Anne.
Amen to that.
I believe that the thief on the cross, had a change of mind/heart which would be repentance. I see where you are going with this. Can a change of heart be considered work or is that change of heart required in order to be saved? I believe that it is the Holy Spirit that convicted the thief on the cross. He may have heard Jesus at some point speaking either in the temple or outdoors somewhere, maybe even met Him during the ministry of Jesus. The thief realized and believed that Jesus is the Messiah and He acknowledged it. He believed God. All he said was, remember me when you come to your kingdom. Jesus did not say, first go on your knees and repent. I believe that Jesus knew his heart a genuine change of mind and faith in Jesus which was initiated by the Holy Spirit. I don’t understand why so many people want some kind of recognition of what they have done. Maybe it is just human nature to think that there must be something that I have done. Something that I did and God just said, wow this guy is just awesome and deserves to be saved. We don’t deserve anything but judgment and it is only by His grace and mercy that we do not get what we deserve. It is God that saves and it is the finished work of Christ on the cross that make it possible to be reconciled to God. It is His work not ours. Jesus took the stripes, the beating and the pain. What did I do?
Hi Freddie, I hope you don’t mind me asking this question.
the thief at the cross with Jesus, did he repented?
if yes, how?
if no, then is repentance a requirement for salvation?
Thank you Anne, if you read my post, i don’t believe that we differ on the issue that we need to acknowledge our sinfulness. A change of heart which is repentance. Maybe you should read the post again and see what I wrote.
I do disagree with one statement you made however: “Jesus died for all Mankind to save them from the punishment of their past sins and to set them free from sin but only those who accept that He has saved them by repentance receive His Salvation.”
Jesus did die for all and as you said not everybody will come to repentance or to faith in Christ. Here is where we differ: Jesus died for the sins of the past, present and future. Not just the sins of the past.
I know that you believe that you are completely sinless, which I find as many others would hard to believe. It is fine with me if that’s what you believe, even-though the Bible does not teach sinless perfection. My question if you don’t mind is, which church do you attend in Queensland? I just would like to know what denomination if any or what kind of church you call your home church. Blessings, Freddy. Btw, you can continue to call me Freedy, because I’m free indeed.
@”Jesus died for all Mankind to save them from the punishment of their past sins”
you really mean past sins? then I am doomed!
what a bad news.
My sins were future when Jesus died. that makes me sad.
@”I agree that we are saved by faith and
not works but can one have faith without any repentance?”
faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.
– Romans 10:17
@”Repent, and believe in the gospel”
The gospel which is grace, not law must be preached first
Repentance in greek is the word “Metanoia”
Meta – means Change
noia – means Mind
so “Metanoia” means Change of Mind
Jesus was saying in essence
“Change your mind, the law cannot save you, Grace will through faith in Me”
@”is repentance a “work” or a change of heart brought on by God?”
Repentance is a Change of Mind
Change of Heart is the work of Grace
a person becomes loving , because God loves Him first.
it is that revelation of God’s love John 3:16
“We love because He first loved us” – 1 John 4:19
Judas had a repentance too.
“Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,”
– Matthew 27:3
not only that, Judas did good works by returning the silver pieces
When we believe we are sinners,
and that only by grace we are saved,
and that it is by faith
and we realize the Law cannot save us, but grace alone
then we have had a change of mind (repentance)
things could have turn around for Judas,
had he see Jesus in His grace and waited for His ressurection
and believe Jesus will ressurect
@”Repentance brings good works and turning from sin, not the other way around”
When we believe we are righteous by faith and not works,
that righteousness causes us to produce righteous works/good works
now that is true change
@”Is faith simply the belief that Jesus is the Son of God or is it acceptance
of the gospel and Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
I would say that Paul meant the latter”
unbelievers, believes in God too.
people will die in the name of God. they will suicide bomb themselves, in God’s name
you are right. faith is totally believing in Jesus. totally, i means the entire gospel.
Amen Larry, that is what the Lord is after. A heart that realizes that we are wretched people in desperate need for a Savior. I like what you said, “if I had to repent of all my sins first…” That’s what I believe as well, change of heart and in time we see our sins committed more and more clearly and making it even more obvious how sinful we were and that without Him we would have been lost for eternity. Thank you Jesus for Your love and thank You for working in our lives. Have a blessed week Larry.
My salvation came in the bathroom while I looked in the mirror at the world’s biggest loser – me. My prayer was simple: “Jesus, I’ve tried everything else. Guess I’ll try You now.”
Thank God for His grace and that it was more than enough for a loser like me. If I would have had to repent of all my sins first, I’d still be on that bathroom floor confessing old ones and committing new ones.
Thanks for your comment. I believe that I addressed the need of acknowledgment for sin in my article. Repentance as I mentioned is a change of mind/heart. Sin means missing the mark. When I surrendered on my patio, I acknowledge that I was wrong and needed to turn. That came from the heart and that is what God is looking for. It is not an outward thing, it is from the heart. I may not have called it repentance on that day, but God saw the genuine intend of my heart. That day I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior. People with an unrepentant heart have always been there, the once in Rev 20 are no different than the people today. They hear about Jesus, they hear about what He has done for them, but reject that truth. That, is the only unpardonable sin, the rejection of Jesus as Lord and Savior, the rejection of the truth from the Holy Spirit that is in the world to convict people of their sins. Wishing you a blessed week.
Hi Noel, hope you are well. The grace of God has to be first. Without His grace, mercy and love towards us, salvation would not be possible. He showed us His love on the cross. Repentance i.e change of mind would be next. That was really my point, when I surrendered my life to God, I did not know it as repentance necessarily as I understand it now. I believe that God sees the heart of man and when I ask Him to reveal Himself, He did. I acknowledged that I was wrong and needed to turn. Once I admitted that I was wrong and needed Him, the Holy Spirit did His work. Believing in God and that He is saves a person. I do believe that it is not any of us doing this work, it is God through the Holy Spirit that draws people and leads them to repentance/change of mind. Grace comes first, than justification. Sanctification as I said is a life long process and it is the Holy Spirit that works in the lives of the believers. By reading His word we learn the truth and we see ourselves in need of that sanctification. We can only do that through the power of the Holy Spirit and His guidance. He is the one that conforms the believers more and more each day into the image of Christ. Not living after the flesh but after the spirit. He works in every believer and He works in different ways in the individual believer. The final outcome will be glorification which will not be until we are with Him for eternity. I hope that makes sense. Wishing you a blessed week in the Lord. Blessings, Freddy.
I agree that we are saved by faith and not works but can one have faith without any repentance? I agree with what Freedomborn said, “when we believe in Jesus we are acknowledging we need Him as our Lord and Savior because we are sinners and need to be saved.”
When Jesus began His ministry the first thing He said in Mark 1:15 is “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” It sounds to me here that repentance and believing in the gospel would go hand in hand.
I also agree that no man is saved by works but—is repentance a “work” or a change of heart brought on by God? Repentance is a gift from God brought on through the Holy Spirit. It is not our works that make us repentant. Repentance brings good works and turning from sin, not the other way around.
I guess the question would be what is Paul’s definition of “faith” when he wrote Eph 2:8? Is faith simply the belief that Jesus is the Son of God or is it acceptance of the gospel and Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? I would say that Paul meant the latter. If one believes in God but is not repentant at all they would be rejecting what Jesus did on the cross as necessary. This would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. They would be saying, “God I know you’re there but I don’t need you.”
This makes me think about the prophecy in Revelation 20 of when Satan will be released one last time after Christ’ 1000 year reign. I would think it would be clear to men at this time that Jesus is clearly the Son of God but even then certain men will still be deceived by Satan and choose evil—rejecting Christ and the Holy Spirit with unrepentant hearts.
So in my opinion when one accepts the Gospel and Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior the Holy Spirit has already begun a work of repentance in them meaning we are not saved by works but faith in Christ as our Lord and needed Savior.
Hi Freedy seems many depend on their own understanding today, it is very clear in the Scriptuers that if we don’t acknowelage we are sinners we don’t have Salvation, when we believe in Jesus we are acknowelaging we need Him as our Lord and Saviour because we are sinners and need to be saved.. Jesus died for all Mankind to save them from the punishment of their past sins and to set them free from sin but only those who accept that He has saved them by repentance receive His Salvation. Is it works to repent, no it is acknowelagment we are sinners needing Salvation. By God’s forknowelage of our hearts repentace He chooses us to be conformed into the image of Jesus who is sinless, He knows we are His Redeemda Children before we are concieved, He also knows those who will never come to heart repentace and turn from evil and do good by The Spirits empowering and it grieves Him.
Matthew 4: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 6:12And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:37-39Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to Salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Revelation 3:19 As many as I Love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Revelation 2:5-6 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
If you need any more Scripture let me know – Christian Love Anne
Powerful stuff Freddie but I am still not clear on which comes first; grace, sanctification or repentance